Diverse & Inclusive Leaders & CEO Activist Podcast by DIAL Global
Bi-weekly podcast show featuring conversations with inspiring thought leaders of today, unearthing their unique stories of diversity, inclusion, belonging, equity and culture.
Diverse & Inclusive Leaders & CEO Activist Podcast by DIAL Global
Harnessing Honesty and Resilience: A Conversation with Jon Dutton, CEO at British Cycling
Prepare for an insightful conversation with Jon Dutton, the man behind British Cycling. With his career spanning over 28 years in the sports field, Jon has taken the reins of leadership at illustrious events like the PGA, Rugby League World Cup 2021, and now, British Cycling. We dive into his journey, the power of resilience, the importance of a diverse and supportive culture within an organization, and how to navigate the challenges our complex world throws at us.
The sports field is not just about games and records; it's also a mirror reflecting societal issues. Underneath the glitz and glamour, sports have been impacted by the weaponization of racism, misogyny, and homophobia. Jon shares his unique insights on how these issues have filtered into the sports world, the role of media in combating these inequalities, and the value of role models in our society. We also discuss the constant evolution of culture and the changing expectations of younger generations in our increasingly digitized world.
Wrapping up our conversation, we delve into a personal reflection on leadership, purpose, and the importance of a strong support system. Jon shares his thoughts on the power of honesty and resilience, and how his support system has been instrumental in his successful career. We also discuss the social impact of sports, its role in building better communities, and driving engagement. If you're passionate about sports, social equality, or just an avid follower of Jon's work, this episode is an absolute must-listen.
My name is Leila McKenzie-Dellis, founder and CEO of Darglobal, and you are listening to the CEO Activist podcast. Today, I am joined by the tremendous John Dutton, chief Executive of British Cycling. John has had 28 years plus working within sporting organisations, driving them to success at the helm. He's worked previously for PGA and the Rugby League World Cup 2021, and he joins me today to tell us all about his journey, where he is now at the top of one of our most well-known and well-loved cycling organisations. Not being biased, I'm here with one of my favourite human beings on the planet. His name is John Dutton. John, it is a pleasure to see you and to interview you again on what is our brand new podcast, the CEO Activist.
Speaker 2:It's very exciting. Leila and you are very kind. We've known each other for some time, so I'm sure the conversation will flow and we'll get into some really interesting and exciting topics.
Speaker 1:We always do get into interesting and exciting topics, don't we? And today, this is the first time that I've been to British Cycling, and the same with the team Browning is superb. Very impressive sight indeed, and amazing just not only to know you as a friend, but also to have watched the legacy of your personal journey the last 28 years, nearly three decades in sport PGA through to the Rugby League World Cup 2021, which happened in 2022, and you still pulled it off. Now to British Cycling. Talk to us about how it has been over the last six months and give us a whistle-stop tour of how you came to be here.
Speaker 2:Gosh. First of all, I'm in a really privileged position. I love sport. I love the things that sport are able to do in terms of reaching the population, and from growing up I always wanted to be a professional athlete, a rugby player, ideally. I was never good enough nor brave enough, so sports administration has been a pretty good second best, so golf, football, a bit of cycling, but then rugby league for the last 12 years and five months into my new role as Chief Executive for British Cycling, so an absolute privilege.
Speaker 1:I had some amazing experiences, met some amazing people, worked around the world, but back here now in Manchester, which is also a pretty special place to me, Again, I'm biased, because I love Manchester, having grown up here well, grown up for a big portion of my life here in the north and they were both fellow lovers of the north, and so pulling into the train station this morning, I was like wow, it's almost like coming back home, and I wonder whether that is how it feels to you, because you have a tremendous background and a very interesting personal background which I'd love for you to you know. Almost go back in time and tell us a little bit about that as well.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I mean Manchester is like a magnet and it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:I know we'll talk about social mobility, which is a personal passion of mine, the fact that we're a born place which is a pivotal part in your life, and I've had just an amazing background in terms of my parents, who always taught me about being determined and building resilience, playing sports, making friendships and seeing some of the amazing things that sport can do and then working in a professional capacity.
Speaker 2:So my life journey has been like everyone's there are bumps in the road. I certainly learned a lot about myself on the Rugby League World Cup, a tournament that I worked on for six years and was postponed only two months out from delivery. But I also learned, probably in that period, that life is far more important than work and would become better people by going through adversity. So that ability to build resilience, to have a sense of determination and my role you know I have a leadership role in sports, in sports administration. I'm not going to change the world, but what I can certainly do as a leader is show the natural attributes of standing up for what you believe in being a role model, being an ally and helping make opportunities better, I think from a life perspective. We can tackle inequality through providing opportunity, and I've seen the power of sport and the role that sport can play in that.
Speaker 1:John, thank you so much for sharing. I'm going to pick up on a couple of things you mentioned there when it comes to facing into adversity and resilience, because those things are far easier said than done. I think you know. Obviously we spent time at number 10 Downing Street recently where we're talking about CEO activism and I think, externally, at times it's easy for people to think you're in a CEO role. It's a role where actually you're not facing into quite as many challenges or headwinds as you are, and the leaders of today and the CEOs that I see be most successful are those that really truly lean in to the challenges. They are their shoulder to shoulder with their team, as you were at the rugby League World Cup and you are now in the new role. But those relationships, those friendships that you know, upward social mobility that you talked about, key aspect of diversity all critical factors that actually stand our future leaders in great stead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think leadership is fundamentally how you make people feel and, as a big part of growing culture, getting people together, particularly when you're going to attempt something that's significant and different. I think we have to consider the world in which we live in. It probably has never been a more complicated place than it is at the moment. The lingering impact of the pandemic war in Europe, for the first time in our lifetime, cost of living crisis, soaring inflation we can go on and certainly running reading a business now is pretty complicated. There are the geopolitical aspects of socioeconomic aspects that probably have always been there to a greater or lesser extent, but it feels at the moment like the perfect storm. So, to get things done hard is hard, but we just need to do things in a slightly different way.
Speaker 2:So I've talked a lot in my first five months about agility, about efficiency, about looking out for each other, looking after each other and if you can create a culture within an organisation. It's so powerful when people feel together that you're on the same journey, you can see a clear direction of where you are heading and also that you can actually have that positive impact on people's lives. So, certainly from a social impact perspective, just getting out and being in communities and genuinely making a difference for the right reason, if we can remove some of the barriers that still exist and go back to social mobility. I mean, it is just quite staggering in 2023 that some of the challenges that people face in the life in a developed economy and if we can play a small part from a sport, from a cycling preventive, from a rugby, but primarily just doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:I absolutely concur, and you mentioned before the feeling of belonging and this almost innate togetherness, thank you. You know, I remember in my early career walking into a room and having my hairs on my arms prickle up on my arms, back of my neck, feeling, oh my goodness, I'm not sure whether I belong here. And I think that's something that you do so beautifully well, through the power of leadership, but also the power of sport, because, to your point, this is something that inspires, it motivates, it's also many people, and so getting out there into the community and driving that social mobility aspect up is really critical to be able to see the sport and the business to succeed, because actually, in that success, it gives greater opportunity to many, many people, which is so desperately needed right now, during what is, as you rightly pointed out, cost of living crisis, inflation, soaring, many other things. We really must pay attention to that it is. It's a volatile, uncertain, unambiguous world that we live in.
Speaker 2:Absolutely is. I mean, we've sort of frequently about ED&I and belonging being the word that's missing, and you know the work of your organization is a testament to your determination to change that and understand that belonging is really a. It's a powerful word and when you get it right it can remove those barriers, it can tackle inequalities and they do still exist. And let's not pretend that we live in a perfect world, because really don't. I think in sport we've seen some fantastic examples of belonging being a part of success and delivering, whether it's for a community, whether it's for a sense of identity from a national team, whether it's people, place and civic pride, and we certainly saw that in the tournament. We delivered. But I think belonging is a really important part of having difficult conversations and making sure that it's grounded in organizations and certain some of the programs that we would look to do.
Speaker 2:Cycling is a sport that can reach the whole population and that belonging bit for me just keeps coming to the fore. But back to the world in which we live in being a tough place and at times being really unfair place. So I think that we've all got to work as leaders. We've taught and I've spoken on many different panels, particularly on diversity, and said I am a white middle-aged man and you know I can be part of the conversation as a leader, I can help make things better. Can't change who I am and maybe I don't necessarily represent some communities in which we work in, but social mobility for me is the pivotal point of being born and living in the north of England, having some amazing experiences but seeing the stark inequalities that still exist in the community in which I live in and if I can play a small part in making that better, using sport as a power for the good, then I absolutely will.
Speaker 2:And I'm interested in many and many areas later of trying to use this opportunity soft power, diplomacy, international relations, you know all the things that can help move. The dial might only be in a small way towards here today, but some people that you can impact and affect, then that's in a really significant way. I remember from a really work perspective, we work with an organisation who specialise in helping people in social care, provide opportunities and some of the small things, just the small things we did like you know that we allowed them the pathway to be volunteers at our event and when I reflect back on that, that was huge. You put the individual at the heart of the things that we did from a leadership perspective that was, you know, played an enormous part in self-efficacy and in helping give a positive experience. And, yeah, maybe the small things are creating the biggest impact.
Speaker 1:I believe they do. I like to call them inclusion nudges, because lots of little nudges versus one great grandiose piece makes a great difference. And you know, again, picking up on something that you mentioned there about being a white guy, I have to say it does. It worries me a lot that white guys, in particular chief executives and those who are in positions of power, are almost having to excuse themselves for being white men and for being. You mentioned role models. We like to talk at Dial about real models because actually you're there, you're doing it. Those who are in the seats of power actually have far more capability to impact than those who, to an extent, are preaching to the converted. And so I'd love to hear your take on number one. You know, is there a time where you felt that you didn't belong? Obviously, you're from the North. We all know about the North South divide, which is a very, very real thing. But then also you know your take on CEOs, white males. Obviously we'd love to see more representation and we've done a huge drive towards that.
Speaker 1:You attended our initial CEO Actors' Development. We had three steves and I remember having, you know, real fierce criticism for that. So why have you got three steves, and actually the answer I gave was if you looked below the surface you would know that Steve Ingram, only FTSE 250 chief exec, in a wheelchair, paralyzed in the waist down. Steve Morales very sadly, two children with a combined mental age of five was widowed. Steve Rowe, former chief exec of Marx and Spencers, another white male actually. The story of social mobility, from stacking shells right up the way to becoming chief executive. It almost takes away from the great journey because we have individuals panicking about the weaponization at times of diversity and even ESG.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I've been in that position where I'm in a first thing and it's difficult that anyone would criticize your work. It's always incredibly thoughtful and just what you describe. You clearly put together people who've had incredible lived experiences that were able then, in a leadership role, to help do something about those things. I remember a conversation maybe a couple of years ago and it was about racism and I was told my view didn't count because I hadn't experienced that. I hadn't had that lived experience and I find that really difficult because I knew I am who I am. I'm incredibly proud of my upbringing and that's why social mobility is really important to me. But in a leadership position, being a role model, being an ally, being authentic, are the things I am in control of. Doing that, and because now, after 28 years of working hard, I've reached a point in my career where I believe I have influence, I would love to be part of those conversations.
Speaker 2:So I think the weaponization you know there's some incredibly difficult circumstances in society misogyny, racism, homophobia and that has filtered into sport. You know we see it in the news more frequently than I would hope to, but hopefully then people like myself who can understand what the issues are and actually do something about it. And we can talk forever. Anyway, I'm a big fan of action. Speak loader than words, and it is the actions that we take that will change the world, not just talking and feeling good about ourselves. But, yeah, experienced situations where I felt really uncomfortable and really proud of what we did on the Rugby League World Cup, where we said right at the start of the journey we had no idea how we were going to do this, by the way, that we would put men, women and wheelchair athletes together on the same platform and everyone would be treated equally, whether that was the introduction of prize money, equalization of participation fees, travel accommodation, the venues that we played and all the things that hadn't been equal before.
Speaker 2:We set out and said we're going to change this.
Speaker 2:Now that was really easy in 2015, eight years ago, and we hadn't worked out how we could afford to do it or hope actually we would do it, and it was quite hard. But just because it was hard didn't mean to say that we should put it by the wayside and just forget about it, and it's things like that that you need to have role models. You need to have examples of where people have blazed a trail and actually done things, and one of the really amazing women that work with us always said you cannot be what you cannot see, and I think that's true. And I think if you can get the balance of people that like myself white middle-aged man who worked for 28 years in the sports industry, but I'm an advocate of change and an advocate of tackling the inequalities and then people that we can see being role models and that communities can associate with and there is no magic wand, there's no easy answers to tackle some of these problems, but certainly having the difficult conversations and doing something about it.
Speaker 1:I love that you talk about action speaking louder than words, because that absolutely was the case with the rugby league World Cup, and it is far more challenging to do it than just to say it.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that I'm finding at the moment keeps me awake a little at night is I love the media by, also appreciate and find it challenging that the media can be used for a huge power, for greater good, but equally it can also perpetuate certain issues and that if you're not in the position of a certain element of diversity and have had that experience, it's very easy to go hey, you know, this is what's being said. There's culture, wars, whatever on the front pages of newspapers and then believing everything that happens or is said when actually you scratch paper, you scratch below the surface. We talked about a VUCA world before. This is a far more complex issue than I think really Anyone understands, that's me included. You know we are lifelong learners, we never will stop learning, but the whole thing is an evolution. It's like you know saying hey, culture, you know it's done, it's living, it's breathing, it's sleeping, is eating, it is moving with every year that we are in business, with every year that we are alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, first of all, VUCA exists. I mean vulnerability, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity gosh every day when I turn up to work, all of those things and and it's harder. It's harder than it ever has been before and I think, some of the agendas that we have to tackle. So, if we take one here at British cycling transgender and non-binary, which is obviously societal Problem, a societal issue, and we've had to apply that in the world of sports and it's emotive, it's divisive. We perhaps at British cycling, first time around didn't really get it right. There wasn't quite a clear level of understanding, but we had to find our way through that and we've done that predicated on furnace and some people will be really unhappy with the way that we've done things, but that's goes back to leadership. You've got to be clear, you've got to have a sense of direction and determination and our protocols around that was predicated fundamentally on furnace, but that's just one of the many, many issues now in society. And I think social media is perpetuated, some of that fake news. You know, all the things that we have to deal with know that.
Speaker 2:Certainly, when I was growing up, none of that Existed and I am of an age where I grew up without a mobile phone, you know, without.
Speaker 2:I look at my two sons and it's just can radically different the level of expectation On them because we have all of this technology.
Speaker 2:Some of it is a force for the good and some of it perhaps not, and we just have to find a way. So I remember, you know, couple of situations in my career where I'm pretty certain, pretty resilient person, but some some couple of situations where, you know, I just almost felt like giving up and and it suits some self-reflection To think, well, stop feeling sorry for yourself and you're in a role where you can actually do something about that. But we all encounter difficult times and we all live in this incredibly complex society. But also we can do things that are simply amazing, and we see, particularly in the world of sport, there's a ruby union World Cup happening at the moment. It's all the amazing women's football World Cup, you know, tournaments like the one that I led on that was predicated on social impact in local communities, and so you know, if we can use those opportunities as a force for the good, we can definitely address some of the societal challenges that we face.
Speaker 1:It's really powerful everything that you've said there, not only personally, but also I do share your fear actually with social media. I mean, I know I have a little boy who's who's 15 and a half months old now and I'm being at secondary school, getting a Nokia and playing snake and being like, oh my goodness, this is like the best thing ever.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:No, they, like it, deserve a place in the museum. Now, it's crazy. But I'd love to pick up on on something you said there and you shared some vulnerability, which I think is, again, personally, maybe you know I would agree with me, but I think vulnerability is such a superpower and, in particular, in a world where social media has risen to the point where I think this false perception of Perfection has been held up. There is something we need to do when you know, on the flip side I use and our five generations in the workforce, in particular the younger generations, are expecting CEOs and leaders to speak out on societal and social issues. Yes, therefore, isn't it better to say you know what, actually, we've not got it right, we're putting it right, as opposed to fake news that says, hey, everything is glossy, we know it's not, and then, before you know it, see a board comes tumbling down Because there's been some massive faux pas, and there's plenty of examples that I could could name that, and so I think the right way is this you know, beautiful power, vulnerability that you show, but also the look we don't get it right all the time, and also To be able to please every single person on the planet is always going to be impossible, because, you know to your point, this is very, very emotionally driven.
Speaker 1:We're entering into a space where each of us have our own lived experiences and each of us have our own opinions. So, be it the transgender argument, be it, you know, race wars, which, and whatever, actually there's always going to be a disparity between certain mindsets. And so, you know, trying to make the best decision for social good, yeah, is is the right way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I don't think perfection exist. I think you chase perfection. You'll probably catch excellence, and maybe that pursuit of perfection has has affected some of the things that we've been able to deliver. And vulnerability. I remember acutely about three years ago and I had my Check-in with my chair on my objectives and he said you know doing great, you need to show more vulnerability. And I went away slightly confused by that conversation and I went and typed into Google and looked up what vulnerability meant. I think the first thing that came up was expose yourself to harm. Oh gosh, don't move. Fancy that. And and it was only through some of the experiences you know all the last probably couple of years, I truly understood that vulnerability is a superpower and Showing vulnerability as a leader, first of all, when you get things wrong, I'm just gonna front it up and hold your hands up and take what we've got it wrong and these are the things we're gonna do about it. I think you get fine, don't if you're not authentic, offensive on for authenticity.
Speaker 2:Leadership is really important to me.
Speaker 2:But that sense of vulnerability and when we turn up to work every day, when we're working from home or come into the office or out on the road. You know, some days we feel better than others and some some days you just think, gosh, I'm not quite sure I've got the solutions to this. And this is where you rely, then, on serenity self with really talented people. I often I use a football analogy all the time that if a football team had 11 goalkeepers, they would lose every game. And you need to build a team that has different mindset, that has different skills, that has different philosophies in approach and I'm really enjoying that in my new role at British Cycling because when you've got big problems to solve whether it's financial sustainability, whether you're trying to grow commercial revenue, whether you're trying to diversify you need to have that skill set, but vulnerability and leadership. If you didn't show vulnerability and you were always reaching for perfection, it's. I think it's quite a fast route to failure Again, particularly in the complex environment that we find ourselves in.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and sometimes the biggest learnings come from those failures and the. You know, the most almost enlightening moments come after the times where you feel and I mean I speak for myself here where you feel, oh my goodness, hit rock bottom here or something's happened, be it work, be it personal life. You know, I think I mentioned my father passed away just over three months ago and you know I'm really questioned my entire motivation for existence, frankly, and you know, I think it takes those moments on life's path and journey to make you almost reset and go. Actually, okay, pick yourself up, put your big girl pants on and not get big girl pants in your case, obviously, but you know, get back on the horse or get back on the bike and go again.
Speaker 2:Life is complex, isn't it? And life at times feels really unfair, you know whether it's the loss of a loved one or other adversity in life, but I genuinely think that adversity never feels like it at the time. You learn more about yourself through adversity than you do through success, and I can associate you know with sometimes in my career, sometimes in my life, where you really have felt like giving up and just feeling sorry for yourself because life isn't fair. But there are the things you can learn more about yourself in those moments than I think you will any other point as how it is.
Speaker 1:So, john, I'd love to ask the question you've very kindly shared and alluded to the fact that there were times that you felt I've had enough, I'm going to give it up. Maybe I feel a little sorry for myself. Talk us through some of those times, and what helped you propel yourself back into yeah.
Speaker 2:I think, the emotions at the time. So we go back a couple years in a professional capacity, feeling emotional, feeling quite tired, exhausted, feeling like you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, and then that sort of leads to just feeling sorry for yourself, and you can see then the impact that has on the people around you. How do you then navigate through that? First of all, reflection just a new day presents an opportunity to reflect. And then, secondly, surround yourself with really high quality people who will challenge you and will help get the best out of you by asking some really direct questions. And for me, I'm full of energy, I'm full of determination, I'm resilient, I'm resolute. I think I take from my parents my dad was a teacher, my mom was a nurse and just the journey to bring you up a family and just get on with it. Don't feel sorry for yourself, there's no time for that. Just get on with it.
Speaker 2:And it's hard, isn't it? It's hard at times when you're full of all that thing. You're in the sense of expectation more as a leader. You know people are looking to you. I remember at moments during the pandemic were probably for the first time in my career when people asked me a question and I said I don't know. I don't know the answer, and you could see that the sense of uncertainty really fueled anxiety and you can just sort of feel that bubbling up. And then everyone is looking to you for the answer and then when you think, well, I don't really know. So I can do two things either one I can pretend I know and take the organization one direction on to ensure that sense of vulnerability, say I don't know. What I do know is that I'm looking out for you, I'm going to look after you and we're hopefully going to get to the right place.
Speaker 2:But that personal adversity, I think my summary would be surrender yourself. I call it a little board of directors. You know, if you have your own personal board of directors, make sure that they've got a different mindset and a different skill set and they'd offer you really high quality advice. Surround yourself with your loved ones and the people that are most important to you in life. You know when I remember acutely we were going to postpone we did postpone the ruby league World Cup after six years of my life, which became a personal obsession and seeing the people that worked so hard and I said look, I've gone as far as I can. I offered my resignation and my wife turned around and said what are you doing? What are you doing? You've worked six years and it might not be quite as good as it was going to be because you take a backward step, but just get on with it and enjoy and, as a leader, show those leadership qualities that can impact on other people. So, yeah, I think there's lots to be said for reflection.
Speaker 2:And I find more. I run, I run really slowly while I run and I just find it, and I'm doing some more cycling as well. I just find those moments where you can just take your mind somewhere else and clear it and think more rationally, because when you're tired, when you know when things happen to you, it becomes slightly irrational. But having that clear mind and a sense of purpose and my sense of purpose is just to come and make a difference my whatever it says in my job description here I have no idea, because my job description I've reinvented and it says one line it's to make a difference. And might come a point where I can't make a difference and then that's definitely time for me to move on and do all the things. But whilst I'm here and whilst I can make a difference and positively impact on things that we do and hopefully on people's lives, then that senses of determination will grow stronger. But I think you've got to go through adversity to find that sort of renewed sense of energy and purpose.
Speaker 1:And a very strong wife helps.
Speaker 2:A very, very, very strong wife who isn't afraid to tell you stop feeling sorry for yourself and just get on with it, and it's great. I mean, we all have different circumstances in our lives, don't we? But just my family. Sometimes it's that perspective, and sometimes I want to work 24 hours a day. I get a lot from working hard and again I think that's from my parents. But sometimes you just have to think well, the most important thing in your life is your family. It's not work and that perspective. So I think during the pandemic it talks about the three Ps, which was prioritization, pragmatism and perspective, and if you go back to those, I'll reorder what you need to do and make sure the most important things are at the top. Have that. Just nothing's perfect, so let's just find ways to do things. On pragmatism and then that perspective you'll never forget about what the most important things in your life are. Why are we doing this? Why are we coming to work every day? Well, yeah, we can affect change, but also we want to look after our family.
Speaker 1:Perspective resonates such a lot and I know that it will with others who who are listening into this podcast. And you mentioned your parents a number of times, which I just is so heartwarming, and for me personally, it's exactly. It's why you work hard every day. That being said, love is universal and so, really, what are we doing it for? It's easy to become a workholic, and there's many CEOs that I know who have. You know, they almost put their sense of self-worth and I think I've done it as well put sense of self-worth in that same bucket. As you know, working so hard it nearly kills you. But actually, if not for the family and for creating sustainable change for the future and for the people, then why do it? Do we want to be on our deathbed one day and not be? You know we're going to be thinking, oh, we should just send that one more email Absolutely 100% and friends as well.
Speaker 2:We'll talk a lot about family, but you give you an example of a quite spectacularly wonderful human being, kevin Sinfield. I think many people will appreciate Kevin's story, but his friend, rob Burrow, has more to Neuron disease, just a debilitating, dreadful disease illness, and Kevin's done various fundraising things and came to me about 18 months ago and said look, I want to run seven ultra marathons in seven days, gosh, and I want to finish at the World Cup final at Old Trafford. Can you help? Yeah, of course we can. And Kevin did that, exhausted, on the final day of the final day of the tournament, and he walked into the middle of the field 67,000 people inside Old Trafford and he said look, we all need to be better friends. I'm doing this for my friend and not a dry eye in the whole stadium, 67,000 people, in true admiration of a truly wonderful individual. So it just shows family, friends and doing things for the right reasons, but also using the power of bringing people together to change people's lives.
Speaker 1:You said that's so perfect, clay, and I mean I've been reading a lot of late this book called Lost Connections and how connections are really intrinsically linked with motivation, and you've covered so many of them. There is the connections with nature, the connections with people, connections with family, and all of those have purpose and diverse inclusion, belonging, equity, culture, almost woven as a golden thread throughout. All of those that makers want to get up, go to work, do what we do very best every day. And what I love so much about our conversations, john, is you show just this incredible amount of humility and also modesty in talking and doing what you do. Because, coming right back to the beginning of the conversation, actions do speak louder than words, and even the fact that you would offer a resignation, that you would sit as a chief executive, when many people still think, oh, chief executives have got it easy, they have not, because you too are a husband, a father, a colleague.
Speaker 2:And also, I guess, a responsible human being. So some of the things that you just said completely resonate. You know the agenda around environmental sustainability, the agenda around travel, the agenda around health. You know we are I think we're on the verge of an existential public health crisis. So I think, as human beings, we all have a responsibility to make the world a better place for us and our family, right, no, but also for future generations. And that's what I love about the role that I'm in.
Speaker 2:I can play a small part, a really small part, in some of that and certainly, if I've got a chance of making a difference, I certainly will do. But it's just brilliant to have the opportunity to meet great people, to have difficult conversations, you know, to engender that whole. You know what can we do, how can we make things better and how can we do things for the right reason? You know, put our egos to one side and truly think about why we're doing things and having a purpose. But that, to me, perhaps, is the most powerful thing in the whole world. I think if you have purpose, you have power, and everything I've tried to do in my career, certainly more laterally, is always come back to purpose, always come back to. Let's ask the question why? But we have have sense of purpose, that unifying togetherness, of belonging. Gosh, you can, you feel like you can change the world. We might play a small part in it, but it's pretty powerful I love it, Purpose power, prosperity, lots of peace.
Speaker 1:This is just tremendous.
Speaker 2:Pregnancy and prioritization and perspective. We've got two different letters of the alphabet, but I mean purpose, you can see. You can see many examples you can see on sports teams. I was speaking at a conference last week around wellbeing and trying to correlate how a sports team any team prepares and the ones that are successful and then move that into a leadership and into a business culture, environment and you can see some of the things that you train, that you play, that you rest, that you then reflect and then you go again. Well, that happens in successful sports teams. It can happen in successful businesses. So, yeah, it's fascinating and unquenchable, even after 28 years. I just love learning. I love meeting people, interesting people from different backgrounds, and learning. Gosh, anyone that says that you can't learn something new every day is just wrong, because you absolutely can.
Speaker 1:I can see the twinkle in your eye when you start talking about sports and the power of sports to change the world. Before we wrap, I would love just to ask your thoughts around CEO activism and why others should join the CEO Activist Council, Plus what CEO activism means to you and why we should put the S in ESG.
Speaker 2:Probably just the summary of the conversation that we've had. I mean, why wouldn't you, if you're in a CEO role and you got the opportunity to affect change and be part of that big conversation, why wouldn't you? What I've loved so far about being part of the group that you've assembled is some amazing people from different backgrounds who are prepared to have the difficult conversations and try and figure out how we can affect change. I think that the social fabric whether it's social mobility, social impact, the society that we live in we should all be responsible and have a part to play. I think along the journey, other CEOs can have a bit of fun, meet some wonderful people, be part of something that does have a purpose, a strong purpose and that sort of belonging together. I would advocate anyone that has the ability to play a part in your successful journey to come and join the journey and do some bumps in the road. If it was all straightforward or easy, it would probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Speaker 1:Exactly what a journey it is, what a journey it will be and what a tremendous, tremendous journey you have been on. John, thank you so much. I have learned so much. Every time I speak to you, I learn more. I think that we should speak more frequently, even more frequently.
Speaker 2:Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me like.
Speaker 1:Than we do, but purpose social mobility. Sport as a power to drive not only engagement but also better communities, better societies. Sport is something that we, as business leaders and people, can learn a huge amount from. John, thank you so much. I'm really excited to have a look around as well. The Bella Drones Thank you again. It is just a joy to know you and have you part of the CEO at this council as well. Thanks, Laila.